PRIME example of how to book the PINNACLE way!

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YANKS -184
INDIANS +176

There are many shops that have....

YANKS -190
INDIANS +170

VOLUME PRODUCING lines sets up basically a WIN-WIN situation for a book!

Bookmaking is an art as much as a science, and if the truth be told............many offshore sportsbooks have no idea of how to do proper bookmaking and is the reason many go belly-up.

Improper bookmaking is much more damaging to a sportsbook than any 20% bonus with a proper rollover ever thought of being.
 

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Please note, I am not saying that a line of -190 +170 is technically bad bookmaking in and by itself.............just listing one small example.
 

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Pinny's line is ADVANTAGE player, 20 cent lines are ADVANTAGE BOOKMAKER. Of course the better line for the player = supposedly the better book. But in bases the smarter books deal in 10-20 cent lines.
 

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Fishy - Pinny wants to take a bet - how many books can say that? They have confidence in their bookmaking ability. Other books spend so much time making sure their numbers have no value to the player that they end up taking no bets.

They really have changed the marketplace - It would be really interesting to see what their handle is like each day - what result they actually need on some of these games. Their goal must be to hold "X" on the buyback side?
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bucky:
Fishy - Pinny wants to take a bet - how many books can say that? They have confidence in their bookmaking ability. Other books spend so much time making sure their numbers have no value to the player that they end up taking no bets.

They really have changed the marketplace - It would be really interesting to see what their handle is like each day - what result they actually need on some of these games. Their goal must be to hold "X" on the buyback side? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

RIGHT ON!
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bucky: Their goal must be to hold "X" on the buyback side? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe they make money on every bet they book. When I started playing sports, from watching Pinnacle, it seemed to me that the lines moved based on a computer program balancing action every second or so. I thought all books did this but later realized that they don't.

By acccepting all comers and producing high volume the book is protected since it moves on action and is profitable from second to second. It's only potential losers are the likes of teasers where, for example, they lost all four ways to last Monday night's football players.
 

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WOODY-
This is precisely how the intelligent bookmaker operates.
 

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Yes they holding the 8 cents on that game for some reason. Probaly thinking guys will come bac and take the Yankees after that ass kicking. Every other game at that split is a 16 cent split. But they do hold 8 cents onger on some games, than they do others.

But at this time of day, and offering 6 cents better than most other places, how can anyone saying that betting EITHER line at Pin is not smart? Win or lose, it is DUMB not to bet the side at Pinnacle.

That is why I say that Pin's "sharpness" is all in people's minds. Look at the lines right now. There are several books right in line with Pin on one side, then there are several books right in line with Pin on the other side. So which side is "right", and which side is "wrong"?

For the most part Pin will be 6 or 10 cents better on these big numbers by default, and they are definately the ones that I was citing yesterday, where they purposely hold 8 cents longer than normal. Because they have that hold at such high odds they can fool around if they like. For example, they don't have to make it a 6/6 split. They can make it 10/2 (-180/+172) or 3/9 (-187/+179), when the "market line is 190/170.

But that IS HOW Pin hangs their lines. It isn't quite as simple as splitting and offering it (the 6 cents) both ways.

But unless you know exactly the volume they have, and whether or not they are hedging one way or the other (gambling). Then there is also no way to know if volume will make a difference.

I have heard the numbers you guys spit out as their supposed volume, but I don't believe they are that high, I don't think they are even close to that. But I don't know, and niether does anyone else, so arguing about them makes no sense.

All I know is that no volume can make up for losing. A 1.5% to 5% hold can't even come close to making up for getting "beaten" repeatedly by hanging such "player advantageous" numbers.

But it is a fact that any book that "gambles" will lose. Especailly in baseball, and most definately at miniscule holds. That is the delicate balance. You have enough weekend warriors that blindly follow or bet any number they think is good for them, and they lose. the smarter, truly "sharp" guys will know the difference and either wait it out or bet early, and buy back late, or bet somewhere else, and get the prime number there.

So by "gambling" they do win their share of sclpas or buy backs. That is the major reason their numbers collapse on eway 10-15 minutes before game time, they KNOW that guys are probably looking to buy back, so they give them what they want.

I also don't think it is a coincidence that they open up with extremes one way, versus the market, nor do I think it is a coincisdence, that a majority of the time, that the extremes between the tow are at opening, and at close. There are of course the games that take action midday, but those also creep back the other way lttle by little.

For shits and giggles watch these lines today:

Hou/Cin opened -189/+181
Cubs opened -219/+201
Atl/Phi -109/+101
Fla +107/-115
SD/STLou +151/-159
LA/AZ -124/+116
Col/SF +176/-184
Sea/Tor +136/-144
Oak/Chi -191/+180

Thise were the numbers I saw as openers, not sure what the RX lines have them at, but they are the numbers I saw yesterday. Look at them now, and note where Pin is, and where the others are, then at game time note where Pin is and where the others are.

Obviously this is a one day thing and doesn't mean much. BUt it also shows that is is nearly impossible to detemine when and where Pin is going, until the game is over, and even then, you have to assume they are gambling to see anything at all.
 
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OK fishy please explain this to me slowly, so I can understand it. Your example of Pinnacle has the best price by 6 cents on either side. But you agree with Ironlock that Pinny is for suckers. I find this very confusing. Maybe you guys have an inside joke or something. I truly do not understand, if you get 6 cents better price on either side, how this is a sucker store. Make the explanation simple, as I am not too bright...Best Wishes...OF
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OMNIVOROUS FROG:
as I am not too bright...Best Wishes...OF <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is why you will never understand. You aren't bright enough.

If you read the thread, not one person ever said Pinnacle is for suckers... However, you are doing much to damage that impression. The title says something that is similiar, but actually reading the thread is what most people do before responding....you (edited) child.
 

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OF is probably the most obnoxious, blowhard poster on the board.

never loses a bet, posts garbage about a play and it loses but he didn't play it etc etc
 

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I remember reading a few years ago about the guy that won the $275 million Powerball jackpot. I read where he spent $100 on tickets for the drawing. In my mind, I started judging the guy for being such a dumbass, then immediately corrected myself and thought, duh, he won it! I think what I feel is "to each his own." Can't judge a guy if he's successful his way, and don't judge me for doing things my way.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Illini:
I remember reading a few years ago about the guy that won the $275 million Powerball jackpot. I read where he spent $100 on tickets for the drawing. In my mind, I started judging the guy for being such a dumbass, then immediately corrected myself and thought, duh, he won it! I think what I feel is "to each his own." Can't judge a guy if he's successful his way, and don't judge me for doing things my way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hard to condemn success that has been measured over the LONGHAUL.
 

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That's my point, Fish. I don't know for sure, but I believe both OF and Iron when they say they are successful. And they are total opposites in the way they approach things. I respect both points of view, thus "to each his own."
 
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I am sorry Mr. Ironlock, being the edited child that I am I thought Pinnacle lovers = Suckers meant that since I love pinnacle, I am a sucker. A simple childlike conclusion. But it meant close to the post? Close does not do much for me sir. Either is or is not. Your either pregnant or you are not. No gray areas here. But you may try to belittle me again, to divert attention to your attempt to be smart. Pretty feeble in my mind. You must be an expert at backing up and retracting. I never saw so many I never saids in all my life. Let me ask you this Mr. Ironlock, did you, or did you not post, Pinnacle lovers = Suckers? Best Wishes...OF
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I respect both points of view <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some posters fail to realize that opinions are galore, but all should be respected. Some know nothing about respect period.

The problem here is posters refuse to post to the post, but deter by taking shots at each other. Indeed childish behavior.

A bomb could blow any minute and we would all love each other suddenly. After the clean-up, we would go back to fighting.

As the world turns.

drink.gif
 
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by no chance in hell:
OF is probably the most obnoxious, blowhard poster on the board.

never loses a bet, posts garbage about a play and it loses but he didn't play it etc etc <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And of course you brought along some evidence of these outrageous claims? What? No evidence. Mr. FROG the RX court would like to apologize to you for these unsubstantiated and baseless charges. This case is dismissed. Best Wishes...OF

That's a new one NCIH, I will add it to my lengthy list of accusations against me at the RX. I sure hope this does not mean you do not like FROG...Best Wishes, your pal OF
 
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General I was brought up believing respect is to be earned, not given, is that wrong? I respect you for the way you handle yourself and your assistance on the WWTS Shaq bet. You earned it. Last time I checked, it is all open for discussion as long as it remained civil. I try to show respect and remain civil. Do members get banned from being perceived as disrespectful? Tell you what General, you do one of your Forum Polls. Should the poster known as OMNIVOROUS FROG be banned? I will abide by that. If I am that obnoxious and disrespectful, let the forum vote me off the island...Anybody can post a poll. I will abide by it. No ghosts, no posts...Best Wishes General Sir...OF
 

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In no way, shape, or form are you in consideration of being suspended from posting here.

In the Military I was taught to respect the rank, not necessarily the man.

Here, I think we should respect the post, but not necessarily the poster. If you wish to elaborate on your disrespect for a poster, please use the Rubber Room.

All I ask here in offshore is just be nice.

Simple principle in life.

Carry on Frog.
 

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